newby, bog, glass or weld

[robertbruce]

i got little holes, 1mm - 8mm in a couple of spots. I was intending on boging them but all the areas carry a mount or some sort of stress so then i looked at one of those little glass kits one can get. Then i realise i was going to have to do both kitting up $100-$150
Then i realised that the repair wouldnt last all that long and that as it failed it would be hidden getting much worse. It worries me that no matter how good the bond between the steel, glass or bog, it would always start eating its way in along the steel.

Then i saw superchep have a special on a gas/gasless 140amp mig, 299 and thought gee, maybe it would be OverAll easier bashing some steel and miging it up, notwithsatanding that it would last longer too...

So i just wanted to check into forum and ask some questions before i barrelled into this...
Is a 140 amp gas/gasless mig the right unit for panel work?
am i right in thinking a arc welder is too violent for panels and this sheet steel?
Is a newby weld more likely to fail than a newby glass/metal bondng??
It may cost not much more taking it to a shop, why am i so intent on doing this myself??

many thanks for any thoughts


i have a 4x4 Toyata Coaster build up with chevy/gm mtr/tranny and a tuff, almost unbreakable 67-72 F250 drive train...
The xcase is divorced, there are no adapter plates, it's fully engineered and a very tight conversion...

[1970 Hi-Boy]

The 140 will do what you're talking about here. I would recommend .022" hard wire  and a shielding gas like 75/25. Take your time when welding your patch panel so as not to pound heat into the metal and warp it, obviously making more work. Be patient and work all around your patch panel in small increments. Then do your body work over your new patch and it will last a long time especially if you rust-proof the back side.

[robertbruce]

many thanks for yout support HB . ive been doing some online how to's and it looks as tho practice will make perfect...

[1970 Hi-Boy]

For other welding skills yes, but for a patch panel you really don't want to make long welds, some guys just do spot welds jumping all over the place to keep it from warping from too much heat. So all you really have to do is point, pull the trigger for a few seconds and repeat in another area until you have connected all the spots.

[robertbruce]

that sounds like a better idea... i was worried the welder would have worn out whilst i was practicing and i would then have to do the "welder reco 101" how-tos i;ve been seeing... spoting patch panel won't take me three weeks...

Im still cleaning the area up... it's around the indicator molding area and inside where the floor meets the front nose meets the corner meets the door jamb, with a vertical section hiding amongst it... ... the corrosion hasnt got into there but it has stain, only a tiny bit on the jamb seam, the floors got a little stain where it meets the inner corner... The holes on the exterior panel are simple and clean through... All in all it;s not bad at all...

what should i use to rustproof the interior areas once bare-metaled?

[1970 Hi-Boy]

You may want to pose that question on the paint and body forum for a better answer. Try talking to your local automotive paint supplier, otherwise, Eastwood has a lot of products for restorations. You could order a parts catalog for your truck from National Parts Depot, they have a fair amount of products as well. Good luck with your project.

[robertbruce]

i might be taking the plunge tomorrow and buying the mig... when i consider i can also fix other panel bits around, my exhaust hangers, mounts for the tranny fans (instead of the radiator carry thems weights), modify the bull bar, tack in some extra underbody mount bolts, tack up ally cabinet frames///
it really does open up the circumstance for a proper repair... I was looking thru the at the labrynth thru the indicator hole wondering how i was going to get in there and realised it must be normal to cut in and then welds one way back out, very cool,
thanks for your post...

here is a pic ... 4x4 Toyota Coaster

[robertbruce]

heya' HB,

Do you reckon three disposable bottles would be enough? to do in the driveway?
I;ve done some welding before, I don't intend to run it like a glue gun...



This started as a PM but then i thought, darn it, ill just post it to spread the experience...
I have applied to have the post moved into the proper section...

I may have to look at the small disposable bottle over a D or E.
I started talking to the gas companies on tuesday but its now wedensday and it may be to late for delivery before Easter...
The gas companies don't seem to tell the full story. They quote prices easy enough but fail to mention unless you've got an ABN you may not get an account and there is a further $200 depoist on the bottle.
Adding the fill, $64, and hire, $120 for 12mths AND regulator, $100, it' just short (excuse the pun) of $500. That's FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the gas from one company!
Some companies even outright lie to you, take this as an example... "No we do not do credit checks on you, but we do need an account application which includes a credit check if need"
My credit is fine. I do have an agreement with a creditor not to make application for other credit unless i inform them first. If i fail in this condition it puts my bridging insurances at jeopady. It just seems too much stuffing around for a bottle of gas...

The disposable bottles may be nessasary because I've really only got the easter break to do this... I figure possibly three...

clean it properly, clean it properly, clean it properly and give it time to cool...

[1970 Hi-Boy]

I've no experience with disposable bottles, if they equal a small tank, would say probably so. Some places are better with tanks than others, the best is to find one where you just buy the tank and own it, then just pay for the gas after that. No monthly rent or contracts to mess with.

[robertbruce]

nah, the bums won't sell it into a privatly owned tank, against regs or some crap... im australian
the little 75/25 disposable bottles also need thier own particular $60 regulator....
i think they have 20cubic meters in them, not much for the driveway draft. but maybe enough
cant get 75/25 in the big tanks, it's more like 93ar5nitrogen2oxy...

[robertbruce]

HB, in this chart do i read .022 as .5 or .6mm wire?

Gauge No.         B.W.G.         U.S.G.                   Gauge No.         B.W.G.         U.S.G.
inch         mm         inch         mm         inch         mm         inch         mm
6         .203         5.156         .2031         5.16                   21         .032         .813         .0344         .873
7         .180         4.572         .1875         4.76                   22         .028         .711         .0313         .794
8         .165         4.191         .1719         4.37                   23         .025         .635         .0281         .714
9         .148         3.759         .1563         3.97                   24         .022         .559         .0250         .635
10         .134         3.404         .1406         3.57                   25         .020         .508         .0219         .556
11         .120         3.048         .1250         3.18                   26         .018         .457         .0188         .478
12         .109         2.769         .1094         2.78                   27         .016         .406         .0172         .437
13         .095         2.413         .0938         2.38                   28         .014         .356         .0156         .396
14         .083         2.108         .0781         1.98                   29         .013         .330         .0141         .358
15         .072         1.829         .0703         1.79                   30         .012         .305         .0125         .318
16         .065         1.651         .0625         1.59                   31         .010         .254         .0109         .277
17         .058         1.473         .0563         1.43                   32         .009         .229         .0102         .259
18         .049         1.245         .0500         1.27                   33         .008         .203         .0094         .239
19         .042         1.067         .0438         1.11                   34         .007         .178         .0086         .218
20         .035         .889         .0375         .953                   35         .005         .127         .0078         .198

[Bob]

Working in your driveway... I'd use flux core wire and skip the gas. Flux core won't care if the wind picks up. It is also better to use if there's some dirt or rust or contamination of any sort.

Your local weld shop where you're buying this wire is going to stock common sizes. Since you're talking SI units I'd consider grabbing a spool of .4 or .5 whichever they stock. And also grab a spool of .7 or .8 in case you get into anything a little heavier down the road. Your welder should've come with a couple pairs of feed rolls. Check them out and see what size wire they're for before you buy a size that you don't have drive wheels for or that won't fit through your liner.

[robertbruce]

no no no no no nooooo... its definitely got to be gas... did you see what i went thru above... that wasn't even a quarter of it... more than half a day, three companies, reps, office workers, my brain was rooted by the end of it...

im thinking about getting the 89 years old woman in the bottom flat to ring them for an account.
After they ask her for all her account details and get down to the type of gas I'm going to instruct Lenore to say this,

Gas Company Operator, "and What purpose gas would you like deary"
Sweet 89 year old lady from downstairs, "well, seeing as tho' you want to know so much, it's for my 40 year old lover so he will pound me harder and harder, dogystyle of course".... id love to see the look on thier faces...

In one part of the repair I have a patch on the outer skin that overlays a section but doesnt touch directly under it. From what i can sense of the design the space is for chalking and ventilation. This is the primary reason I am taking this on because of this tiny bit in the repair.
When i get some gas im going to tent around the work area with dropsheet, tarps, etc and run a fan in there...
im pretty pendantic...

What i can do with gasless is everything else but the repair. This will be good for set-up, workarea... and not to mention the funnest part - making the patch... im looking for a graft from the truck in this instance, frag going anywhere else for something

[Bob]

no no no no no nooooo... its definitely got to be gas...

Uh.... O.K.?  

You might want to consider a pair of these panel pliers for your patch?
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-panel-flange ... -wide.html

Offsetting the panel doesn't require the precision fit of a butt-weld patch. Just offset your hole (or patch) and lay your panel into the depression and zap it up.

Here's a shot of an old tractor fender that was banged up and had a hole rotted through where a channel collected water and dirt.

original shot back.jpg

After a lot of hammer and dolly work, cut out the bad and a forward section from a donor fender...

DSC00161.JPG

Zap it up... blast & Squirt it...

Copy of fenders.jpg

[1970 Hi-Boy]

Yeah .5 looks good if thats how they do it down under. Make sure your tip matches up. Don't sweat the wind unless a storm. You can even use your own body to block it. Or you can set up a make shift stand with what you have around with plastic just for a wind block. Once you see how thin a material you can stitch up with the tiny hard wire, you'll be a happy welder indeed. At least I don't feel quite so bad now for not knowing what a disposable bottle was.