300ci 1971 AUTOMATIC CONVERSION f350

[350KANGAROO]

A big hello to everyone from downunder.

Well i have started a new discussion..............as I believe its going to need quite a lot of differing opinions  

Well I have just joined the forum and hope that I can now make some progress with my newly aquired 350.
Ok, I have a 1972 f350 (built in december 1971) It has the 300ci engine and 4 speed. Rear end has 4 something ratio, 159" WB,single carter carb. (truck is totally stock apart from headers) Duall wheels at rear.
The truck was assembled here in Melbourne Australia, so all the vin numbers and other numbers are different to USA built trucks.

I have done some extensive research in the past 6 weeks and have compiled some conflicting opinions in regard to what I am trying to do. As follows:

I wish to remove the 4 speed and install a c4 automatic. with a floor (t-bar) shifter.
I can source a few different c4 automatics over here and have found a C10 ( c4 with pan filled dipstick- used with 164 teeth fywheel)
Do i need to change the existing flywheel on the truck? It seems to be 164 teeth on the truck now (with the 4 speed)or do I need to change the flywheel? Is the flywheel different on a 300ci FOR an automatic or manual?
Will I have to change the tailshaft yolk?
Do i need to get a c4 with certain splines? 26/26 spline input shaft? 26/24?
Do i need a c4/c10 sandwich plate?
Will the starter motor have to be replaced???????????or will the exisiting work/fit?
In so far a transmission cooling pipes? Do i replace the radiator or install a seperate transmission cooler ?

To date I am under the impression that a c4 with pan filled dipstick will work? Around 1970 to 1979? with a 5 bolt bellhousing! (bell to case)

Do i need to replace the brake/accelerator pedals/linkages???? I think the current clutch pedal is seperate from these and would just unbolt and thats it?

Now we have to understand that I have to source the c4/c10 from australian built cars/trucks. Ford Australia OFFERED THE 300CI in the f100-f350 RANGE over here (but these where canadian built engines)1968? to 1973? I think?
I cannot just go to a junkyard and ask have you a 300ci /automatic in the yard? Doesnt exist over here?
My research suggests that the f350 1972 over here did not come out with an automatic! The f100 1972 did but this was a SVO (SPECIAL VEHICLE ORDER) and it came with a floor shift.

The c4/c10 AUTOMATICS was installed in quite a number of australian built fords- 6cylinders and 302? and 351? passenger cars!
My task is to source the correct one that will be a direct fit? Bellhousing- flywheel etc!
I do not expect anyone on the forum to tell me which australian vehicle has the correct c4 for my needs.........but an indication as to which c4 I should be looking for will be terrific!

My other question is regarding the revs? The truck at the moment with the 4 speed screams in all gears(this apparently is normal) Will an automatic (c4) provide a better drive? More so wiill it drive on the highway at 100kmh comfortable? Without screaming? Or would i need to change the rear end ratio?

I would consider getting an offy manifold/clifford and either a holley or edelbrock 4bbl...........but parts for these 300ci engines over here is almost impossible to find! I will have to source these from usa........later.......

So in a nutshell...........if anyone can provide some information to set me on the right path.............perhaps I will start to grow hairs on my head instead of loosing them lately!

I must repeat myself and clarify that sourcing 300ci parts over here is a nightmare! I now only relaise why the person whom sold me the truck sold it to me...............but I have hope! and determination!

Apologies for any errors above..............but I am new to f series trucks!

Just need some advice as to the correct method/parts to do what i wish to do..............ie change it from manual to automatic-floor shift.
thanks god bless

[sargentrs]

from Georgia!  This site has a lot of good information on the inline 6's http://fordsix.com/tech.php and performance upgrades.  Australian 6's may be different but maybe they may have info on yours too.  With 4.xx gears in your rear end, she's going to scream at high speeds.  Swapping to a C4 will improve a little but your drivetrain combination, 300ci/4spd/4.xx gears was built for hauling and towing, not for highway cruising.  It all depends on how you intend to use your truck.  Dropping down to a 3.50 - 3.73 gear ratio will be a dramatic improvement and not sacrifice too much towing ability.  A 300ci/C4/3.25 gear combination would cruise on the highway but it's going to take a while to get up to speed and don't expect to pull a 5000# trailer up any hills.  A lot of other guys here, with F250-F350's can elaborate a little more.  Post some pics, we've love to see your truck!

[1970 Hi-Boy]

For this conversion you will need a new flex plate to bolt the torque converter to (in place of the fly wheel), a cross member and mount, a splined yoke to go onto (most likely) a customized drive shaft, transmission cooling lines, a new radiator with cooler(and for that big of truck with that small a transmission I would add a secondary cooler as well) and a floor shifter or new steering column with automatic shift. Not sure of your reason for getting rid of the 4 speed as they are one tough transmission and can handle heavy loads well. The reason for your trucks high gear ratio is for the six to be able to move a load from a standstill. So the more gear ratio you drop it's going to be that much harder on your engine/transmission(even with the automatic). I'm guessing you're in the mid to high 4's, if so I wouldn't go too much under 4.00 to 1. Again not sure what's available to you, you would be better served with a C6 automatic and a mid to large sized V8 combination, but that is just my opinion. No matter, let us know how you're coming along with your truck, and if you need any other help. Good luck to you and your Ford truck.

[j41385]

You might consider an AOD Transmission so you have Overdrive, which of course would help with rpms on the Highway. Also, I understand that you say 300's are rare there, but I couldn't Bring myself to recommend a V8 to you, as Personally I dislike them. If you get some time, I'm sure we'd like to see pictures of your truck. It's neat seeing a truck like ours with the steering wheel on the other side.

Also in my signature you can see my engine video if you would like to see what can be done with the 300, and US parts.

[350KANGAROO]

hello and thanks to all............i am attempting to post the pictures of the aussie beast.

[350KANGAROO]

Ok i have seen it has posted so I will post a few more............

In the meantime that was very quick of everyone in replying to my post................thankyou.

I do not intend to use the truck to carry big loads.........although apprently the very first owner use to carry his clysdale horses from 2 hours away and cart them to the city (MELBOURNE) where the horses would work....................a bit of history.............

I can confirm I will not be carting horses....................and will still consider putting in an automatic............even though it sounds like I have a lot of work ahead of me...............
It would be easier to just put in a v8 and auto and be done with it.......................but then I wouldnt have needed to get on this forum and meet you lovely peoples!
So that said , I still am interested in putting an automatic in the truck, floor shift, and perhaps change the diff ratio.................I am already sweating at the thought.............anyway.........I shall keep you all informed-as to the progress -as I will definately need your collaboration on this task...........

[350KANGAROO]

And heres an engine shot......................guess everyone is saying what the hell is the brake booster and steering box doing over there..............welcome to australia......................

[Ranchero50]

Here's my F350 build, might help with some of your questions.  viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48572

For you C4 swap, you should be able to use any auto tranny from a Windsor smallblock V8 with your 300 but the 300 is internally balanced vs. external balance on the V8's.  You could use a V8 flexplate (sandwich plate?) and just knock the wieght off or find and buy the correct plate.  Here's some flexplate balance info:  http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/FordFly ... plates.htm

For the swap, you can reuse your pedals, just drop your clutch pedal to the floor and put it under the mat or buy the wider auto brake bedal and the pin that replaces the clutch pedal.  Add some sheetmetal over the clutch rod hole (if you have one).

For you crossmember you should be able to reuse it and the tranny mount but you'll have to relocate the mounting holes on the crossmember or the chunk of angle the crossmember sits on in the taller F350 frame.

You'll have to find a driveshaft that will work or get your shortened and the C4 yoke swapped onto it.

For you rear to get a better gear ratio you'll have to swap it.  The '70 Dana 70's weren't designed to run thicker gearsets.  I swapped in a Ford Sterling 10.25" rear from a newer '89 F350 box truck (same width spring perches).  It's pretty much a direct bolt in.

I wonder how hard it would be to find any of these trucks up through '79 or so down there with a C4 already in it.  You should be able to pull most of the swap parts out and be much further along.

Jamie

[350KANGAROO]

hi Jamie.
Thanks for your excellent input.
Just to clarify.............any c4 from a windsor 302 will be a direct fit?

So a c4 from a 351 will not work?????? Really getting confused here on exactly what c4 from what motor will actually fit direct onto the 300ci?


My research suggests that I require a c4 with a pan filled dipstick- rather than a c4 with a case filled dipstick?????
Difference being that the panfilled is for a 164 teeth flywheel setup...........ie 300ci motor? These panfilled c4s are commonly reffered over here in oz as a c10 transmission!

In so far as a flexplate..................i will be able to source the correct one here.............

Finding a truck up to 79 with a c4/c6 already in it is going to be very difficult......................
However I do have the chance to get my hands on a 1978 ford f100 with a 302 clevland? or it could be a windsor? in it............and column shift auto..............the engine is a "y" and the transmission is a "R"

Its a canadian imported f100 if that helps.................and its a long wheel base........
Chances are it has a c6 in it???????????

Would i be better off installing the transmission from the f100?????????? if the bellhousing actually fits the 300??????????

This is what i found on another forum:

ALL case-fill C4s that bolted up to the 302 and related motors BEFORE 1977 used a 157 tooth flexplate. ALL case-fill C4s & C5s that bolted up to the 302 and related motors AFTER 1976 used a 164 tooth flexplate.

ALL pan-fill C4s & C5s in ALL years that bolted up to the 302 and related motors used a 164 tooth flexplate. Pan-fill C4s & C5s NEVER used the 157 tooth flexplate

My research suggests that a c10 is the go???????????????????????for what i want to achieve?????????????????

your expertise and thoughts will be greatly appreciated...................

[Ranchero50]

To many .....  My eyes crossed about half way down  

Ford used the 300's up through the mid 90's so you should be able to source the correct flexplate for your tranny via the local parts store.  Online in the US it was looking around $40 for a replacement.

Food for thought:  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... Ford&rt=nc

Ford was a real pain with their autos and flexplates.  For whatever reason they usually changed the torque converter bolt pattern and drain hole location between some transmission types.  I know the C4 / AOD are different, never dealt with a C6 or FMX so I don't know about them.  So, you need to source your tranny with flexplate, then see if you can get one for a 300 with the same bolt pattern.  A 300 / C4 shouldn't be an issue.  There was also a FMX and C6 both in smallblock bellhousing pattern.

According to one of the auctions above, the flexplate fit from '65-'82 with a 164 tooth flywheel.  It doesn't spec the tranny so maybe it'll work with a FMX or small C6.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-FRA206- ... 38&vxp=mtr

One other thing, usually the US console / floor shift trannies had a different actuating lever and the shift rod went to the top vs. the bottom, I'm not sure about how the Aussie ones are built.

[caseyj10]

Just to clarify.............any c4 from a windsor 302 will be a direct fit?

So a c4 from a 351 will not work?????? Really getting confused here on exactly what c4 from what motor will actually fit direct onto the 300ci?

sbf and 300 have the same bellhousing pattern, so they swap. since you live in the land of the clevelands you should be able to find an auto tranny off an 351C (or 302c?) pretty easy. clevelands also share the 300/sbf bell housing pattern.

[350KANGAROO]

CASEY AND MR RANCH!

tHANKS FOR YOU ADVICE.................

YES CLEVLANDS ARE PLENTIFUL HERE....................BOTH 302 AND 351..................AS LONF AS IT IS MATED TO A 164 FYWHEEL............IT SHOULD FIT...

I WILL BE ABLE TO SOURCE A 164 FLYWHEEL...............FOR A 300CI.............SOMEWHERE...........

i HAVE JUST CHECKED THE TRANSMISION IN THE FATHER IN LAWS F100/1978.............IT HAS A C4!
tHE MOTOR IS A 302 CLEVLAND.....................AUSTRALIAN BUILT CLEVLAND ORIGINAL TO THE TRUCK...................IE FORD AUSTRALIA PLANT HERE IN MELBOURNE PUT THIS ENGINE IN FROM FACTORY..........................
POINT I AM GETING AT IS DID USA AND CANADIAN BUILT F100S IN 1978 COME WITH A 302 CLEVLAND?????????????????????IM NOT SURE??????

IRRESPECTIVE, I WILL MOST PROBABLY USE THE 1978 F100 AS A DONOR..................SOURCE THE CORRECT FLYWHEEL................FOR A 300CI...........AND SLOWLY GATHER THE OTHER PARTS NEEDED...........................IE FLOOR SHIFT, BRACKETS, COOLER, ETC,

EVERYONES HELP TO DATE HAS BEEN TERRIFIC..............................VERY VERY VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.........................
ANY FURTHER INFO -ADVICE-OPINIONS WILL BE WELL REGARDED.
THANKS
CLAUDE..............350KANGAROO

[caseyj10]

CASEY AND MR RANCH!

tHANKS FOR YOU ADVICE.................

YES CLEVLANDS ARE PLENTIFUL HERE....................BOTH 302 AND 351..................AS LONF AS IT IS MATED TO A 164 FYWHEEL............IT SHOULD FIT...

I WILL BE ABLE TO SOURCE A 164 FLYWHEEL...............FOR A 300CI.............SOMEWHERE...........

i HAVE JUST CHECKED THE TRANSMISION IN THE FATHER IN LAWS F100/1978.............IT HAS A C4!
tHE MOTOR IS A 302 CLEVLAND.....................AUSTRALIAN BUILT CLEVLAND ORIGINAL TO THE TRUCK...................IE FORD AUSTRALIA PLANT HERE IN MELBOURNE PUT THIS ENGINE IN FROM FACTORY..........................
POINT I AM GETING AT IS DID USA AND CANADIAN BUILT F100S IN 1978 COME WITH A 302 CLEVLAND?????????????????????IM NOT SURE??????

IRRESPECTIVE, I WILL MOST PROBABLY USE THE 1978 F100 AS A DONOR..................SOURCE THE CORRECT FLYWHEEL................FOR A 300CI...........AND SLOWLY GATHER THE OTHER PARTS NEEDED...........................IE FLOOR SHIFT, BRACKETS, COOLER, ETC,

EVERYONES HELP TO DATE HAS BEEN TERRIFIC..............................VERY VERY VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.........................
ANY FURTHER INFO -ADVICE-OPINIONS WILL BE WELL REGARDED.
THANKS
CLAUDE..............350KANGAROO

Glad to help. The 302c was a australian only engine, so we wouldnt be a factory option in North America.  if i am to mistaken, all early windsor/cleveland engines had 164 tooth, 28oz flexplates.

[j41385]

All 300 flex plates are zero balance since the 300 is an inline 6 and naturally balanced like any inline 6, or v12 or several other designs. The flexplate you will need will be Zero balance. No offset weights.

Flywheel is for manual transmissions, flexplate is for autos.

[sargentrs]

That's a beautiful truck!  This is some interesting stuff.  Until this, I had never heard of a 302 Cleveland.  Live and learn!