1969 F250 4x4 Highboy 4/26/13 Video

[robroy]

Good afternoon Ryan,

I like your reasoning on why you sold the 'Rover.  It was probably a cool thing to have experienced, yet you'll no doubt get more enjoyment per dollar with something of your own creation, as you've mentioned.  And I can relate to your expectation for some oomph from a vehicle that drinks the gas; my 1986 Chevy 454 pickup's in that same category (poor ratio of oomph to gas mileage).

Robroy

[1971ford]

Yep, if you're going to get low mileage you better have some power!

Today's progress. Removed all the torque converter bolts, removed the starter, and removed all but one (easiest to get to) transmission to engine bolt. Slide two crossmember bolts out and remove the last engine to tranny bolt and the transmission will drop. My buddy wasn't able to get his transmission back in today so I'll be getting the transmission jack from him tomorrow. I don't work tomorrow as well, so I'll have plenty of time to drop the transmission and start tearing into it.

Then I turned the truck around in the driveway and cleaned the garage since it's about to be covered in automatic transmission parts.

Then the front fell off. I never properly aligned ANY of the front clip and couldn't get it to align at all. So I tore it all down. Good time to clean the por-15'd panels back to shinyness, and I need to re-paint some of the truck so the fenders and hood needed to come off anyways. Bird crap took it's toll on the paint from sitting for 6 months and a couple spots are peeling.

[1971ford]

I got a little carried away with the tranny build parts list. Any time I saw an upgrade part that mentioned more holding power... just had to buy it
Soo... I ended up with some shiny things I didn't plan on buying, but I'm sure it will be worth the extra cost when I get thrown into the seat even harder!

Ended up ordering a master rebuild kit, alto red eagle clutches, transgo shift kit, billet aluminum reverse/low servo piston (new design making it impossible for piston to get crooked.. no losing reverse for a 3rd time!), billet accumulator (stock one is plastic), billet intermediate servo piston (several more o-rings than stock servo piston, holding more pressure), fancy front band, and bushing kit deal. I think that's it anyways.
Then there's the torque converter which I haven't ordered yet. Still deciding where to send $700-$800 for that...

Cut down the rock sliders, and re-capped the ends. No more shredding tires.


Hate to do it but trimmed the fenders so no more fender carnage.


Dropped the transmission, got it on the bench and have it mostly torn down.



Cause for reverse failure. Still not sure why I lost all other gears but assuming it's the clutch discs.

[killakobra]

yep, that's the servo. if i remember i think that also works with 1st gear. loss of all gears sounds like a fluid problem tho.

[averagef250]

OD too long or?  What's your angle investing in the 727?

http://bend.craigslist.org/pts/2997071778.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/pts/3012578602.html

A few dozen more out there too.

Costs about $100 to ship a trans from coast to coast.

[1971ford]

yep, that's the servo. if i remember i think that also works with 1st gear. loss of all gears sounds like a fluid problem tho.

Yeah it does deal with 1st gear as well. Thats why when I lost my gears the first thing I did was figure this servo flipped or the seal got screwed up (AGAIN) like it did, and put it in 3rd to try and move. Didn't work.
Yeah I'm not sure... I'm most of the way through the transmission and everything seems fine so far besides the reverse/low servo piston seal  
There is fine metal all throughout the fluid though.Makes me think clutch material but the clutches don't seem THAT bad..

OD too long or?  What's your angle investing in the 727?

http://bend.craigslist.org/pts/2997071778.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/pts/3012578602.html

A few dozen more out there too.

Costs about $100 to ship a trans from coast to coast.

The reasoning behind not swapping to a later model overdrive unit is because I really did not want to deal with swapping the adapter plate and starter out to do so.
I will have a total of about $1,200 into this transmission. $700 into a torque converter and about $500 into parts. It was supposed to be a quick simple rebuild but I got carried away, as I'm now on a mission to get as much power to the ground as I can. Shiny things got the best of me. Oh well, only money right  
I think it will work out fairly nicely, I think I'll be more than happy. Although, not going to lie, a overdrive would be nice of course.
But with the tighter torque converter I've heard top speed is helped quite a bit. I could just do 65 MPH just barely before, so hoping to comfortably cruise at 65 now which is all that I want.
If it still revs too much to do that, I'm going to change the gearing.. then I know I will cruise at 65 nicely and I'm still going to have enough torque for the trails.

[averagef250]

The 2" thick adapter won't fit the way your engine is installed?  The first gen starter actually fits the 94-2002 adapter plates less one hole. All the upgrade parts you've purchased will drop right in any 48RE or older auto. However, the converter will not. The non-lockups don't swap (sure you know that). The A518 will use the same adapter plate though and those things are real cheap.

You're right about the gears. You can make up for OD with taller gears since you're running the 37's and your takeoff will still be OK with a decent converter. Just make sure you put a monster trans cooler and pan on that thing. With the later trans the thing you do get is lockup. Even a good converter isn't a substitute for that.

I don't know what just a converter runs from them, but before you place a converter order call Georend and ask Dave his opinion and ask what goes into their converters. The Georends are pretty far out in front when it comes to Dodge autos.

[1971ford]

You've got me thinking about a A518 swap. Not sold on it yet though. I would love to have highway speed without sacrificing my take-off... Although, too strong of a take-off and I'm going to break my truck every week trying to impress my buddies   And the only time the truck will really see any highway usage it will be towing a trailer so speed limit is at 55 anyways. I'm picking up a little toyota pickup for commuting/backup vehicle.
A 518 would bolt right up to my current cummins/plate right? And same starter would bolt up? The linkage would even work? What about the trans crossmember (not a big deal if i'd have to fab another one up)?
Is there enough room for any driveshaft at all between a 518 and divorced t-case? Or would I be going married for sure. That would actually knock out my t-case problems anyways.

Looking for a 518.. can't find any 518 2wd or 4x4 anywhere within 300 miles (craigslist multiple city search). I've got a few guys i can call though. I'd probably be spending another $1000+ to get the extra gear in the truck after the cost of a 518, and the extra money for a lockup converter, and driveshaft relengthening. And more down time...

Hmm. Not sure if it's worth it, it's close..

[averagef250]

The A518 doesn't have lockup, just OD.

Quick timeline-

89-91.5 727 non OD or lockup thin adapter plate
91.5-93 A518 got OD, but no lockup thin adapter plate
1994 47RH got OD, LU, 2.25"thick adapter plate and straight cut OD planets (noisy)
1995 47RH got same stuff, but helical OD planets (important to know if you want to upgrade planets)
1996+47RE/48RE same as above except loses internal governor (shorter overal length) and computer control.

The 47RE/48RE's are all pretty much the same. They beefed clutches and planets a little, but not really anything important. The crappiest planets will still take lots of power.

The Dodge OD autos are F'n long. I'd guess add a foot to your 727 and you're in the ballpark of a 518/47RH. The nice thing about the super long length in a 4x4 is the mated Dodge setups are pretty good on front driveshaft angles because they're so long.

If you're going to do it I'd urge you to go for the 47RH or RE and get lockup. The thick adapter plates are dirt cheap, if you want to spend next to nothing on one buy a commonrail one on ebay for $50 and drill one hole to make it work. Your first gen flexplate should work, I believe they're all the same and you can reuse your old starter- They don't seem to care if you only use 2 of the 3 bolt holes. The lockup transmissions -Built right- seem to handle a lot more and last far longer than the non-lockup versions.  A bone stock 47RH/RE with a good converter, modded for converter flow in park (shift kit) and a pressure-loc will handle anything you can throw at it with 250HP 5.9. The pressure-locs really do work. It's too easy to make boost towing at part throttle- The pressure locs boost line pressure when you see boost.

Once you have lockup you'll be amazed how much difference there is. On a stock valve body you can lock the converter in only 3rd or 4th which is fine for 99% of people. Valve bodies can be modifed to lockup in all gears if wanted though. I find 3rd gear lockup is pretty useful, but having it in first and second is anoying if you accidently flip a switch at the wrong time.

The 94-2002 or so NP241 transfer cases are real narrow and fit fine between older frame rails. Of coarse you can use a 205 or even a newer 271 (if you can figure out how to drive a speedo), but the 241 is the easiest, cheapest and for what you do the 241 has a better low range than the 205 and it's a lot stronger in low range as far as actual power handling ability goes. The 205's design is weak in low range.

Food for thought anyway.

[1971ford]

Great info, helped a lot, thanks. Lockup sure would be sweet, but I don't think it would pay off well enough for me to have the truck down longer and the extra money to get it together. The highboy will probably see the freeway a couple times in a year. Only time It would go on the freeway is to haul dirt bikes to Nevada... but i'm about to build a little toyota pickup prerunner that will be used for that. Other than that, it will only see the freeway to haul my buddy's crawler to a trail an hour away. It would probably take 20 years to pay off the extra cost of a lock out converter, adapter plate, starter and such.

So i'm going to say lock-out auto's are a no-go, but wouldn't mind swapping to a 518 if i happen to find one somewhat local for a decent price.

[averagef250]

Great info, helped a lot, thanks. Lockup sure would be sweet, but I don't think it would pay off well enough for me to have the truck down longer and the extra money to get it together. The highboy will probably see the freeway a couple times in a year. Only time It would go on the freeway is to haul dirt bikes to Nevada... but i'm about to build a little toyota pickup prerunner that will be used for that. Other than that, it will only see the freeway to haul my buddy's crawler to a trail an hour away. It would probably take 20 years to pay off the extra cost of a lock out converter, adapter plate, starter and such.

So i'm going to say lock-out auto's are a no-go, but wouldn't mind swapping to a 518 if i happen to find one somewhat local for a decent price.

Guess I wasn't really talking about fuel mileage at all; The primary motivation for lockup is keeping the trans alive and not wasting most of the power the engine makes all around it's torque band.

The A518 would probably work pretty good with your setup. It would put you around 1600 cruise or probably 1800 at 65 with slip factored in. That would be pretty good all around. If you keep the 727 3.54 gears would get your gearing almost exactly the same as the 3.08 gears and 31" tires the dodges came with.

[1971ford]

Ahh. I guess if i could find a 47re or 48re , adapter plate and starter for a decent price then i'd spend the extra bucks...

I'm thinking lockup is only used on the freeway, is that right? or would you lock it in even on city streets...

Found a a518 for $250 OBO... 4 hours away though. Figure tell him i'll come get it for $200.  $50 in gas.. Hmm... decisions..
Really would like to find out if there is room for any driveshaft in between a 518 and divorced t-case. If there isn't, then i need to find a a518 with married t-case.
http://fresno.craigslist.org/pts/3074569272.html

And found a deep pan
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/3036781492.html

[averagef250]

It isn't just for freeway. Most of the time the converter will be locked above 35 MPH. You wouldn't believe how much power is wasted through the converter until you can lock and unlock it when you want.

If you go with an RE trans you must run the dodge PCM to control it. Not a big deal at all to hook up and the computer controlled autos do work the best. The 47RH and 518 were controlled by the PCM, but it's not needed. You can set these up to shift into OD and LU with switches or automatically with pressure switches on the trans.

The 93 and older 4x4 autos will have a passenger drop 205 t-case. The 94+ are driver drop NP241, then 271.

[1971ford]

Got it. I think I'll call the 518 guy tomorrow and pick that up. That way I'm basically getting overdrive for $250, no catches... since it's the same transmission as the 727 basically. Just need to have my driveshaft shortened. I'll ask the guy for a measurement and make sure I have room for a driveshaft. Even if it has 1" of tube I guess.
If I cruised the freeway often I'd spring for a lockup trans.

[averagef250]

The 4x4 overdrive housing on the 518-47RH is 15.4" long. 2wd will be a little longer I believe. You can measure from the rear of the main case on your 727 since the front case is the same length (they are a 727 with OD added on the back).

Going to be difficult to get a short center driveline to work Ok. Somebody else on here did a highboy with a first gen dodge 2wd 518 and divorced case. They got it to work, but were collecting parts to go to a mated Ford 205 to solve some issues with it.