Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

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Albert_f100
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Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by Albert_f100 »

So I'll start by I bought a 1972 F100 2wd 302 custom sport. I look at the brake conversion because I had all drums. I start reading forums and learn tha :pout: t I could use a 73-79 but if I use a donor truck I would have to use the donor truck for it all. So I found a 76' at the junk yard. I was able to pull the brakes of the vehicle. I was missing the proportional valve, the master cylinder, and the Power booster. So I Purchase all the items from the same specs from the donor truck which was a 1976 f150 2wd 300 v6. I have a couple questions now that I'm waiting for the pieces to show up.
1. I do not know if the 1976 had a power brake booster?
2. Could I Put a Power Brake booster on?
3. If so What do I need to put it on?
4. I heard about this power Brake pedal, Do I need that?
5.Does the 1976 Power Brake booster have a bracket or mount to the firewall?
6. If so where can I find? I look everywhere for one.
7. Can I use the 1972 brake steel lines.
8. Should I have use the control arm from the 1976 truck?

If anyone knows the answers to these question please help, I'm tired of going around in circle. I do not know to much about fords.
Thankshttp://www.fordification.com/forum/posting.php ... e=post&f=5#
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by Craigerf100 »

1. I do not know if the 1976 had a power brake booster?
2. Could I Put a Power Brake booster on?
3. If so What do I need to put it on?
4. I heard about this power Brake pedal, Do I need that?
5.Does the 1976 Power Brake booster have a bracket or mount to the firewall?
6. If so where can I find? I look everywhere for one.
7. Can I use the 1972 brake steel lines.
8. Should I have use the control arm from the 1976 truck?

1... yes in 76 they had brake boosters
2. Yes it's crazy easy
3. A disc/drum master cylinder, a brake booster, and booster bracket.
4. No any brake pedal will work.
5. Yes it does if it had a booster
6. On ebay or at the junk yard and
7. Yes u can. U might need to splice in some new fitting or some more line.
8. Control arm?

On the 76 did u take the whole twin I beam? Just the spindles?
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by HIO Silver »

Craigerf100 wrote:1. I do not know if the 1976 had a power brake booster?
2. Could I Put a Power Brake booster on?
3. If so What do I need to put it on?
4. I heard about this power Brake pedal, Do I need that?
5.Does the 1976 Power Brake booster have a bracket or mount to the firewall?
6. If so where can I find? I look everywhere for one.
7. Can I use the 1972 brake steel lines.
8. Should I have use the control arm from the 1976 truck?

1... yes in 76 they had brake boosters
2. Yes it's crazy easy
3. A disc/drum master cylinder, a brake booster, and booster bracket.
4. No any brake pedal will work.
5. Yes it does if it had a booster
6. On ebay or at the junk yard and
7. Yes u can. U might need to splice in some new fitting or some more line.
8. Control arm?

On the 76 did u take the whole twin I beam? Just the spindles?
I swapped in the booster and MC from a '75 F150 and the brakes from a '78. Here is where my 70's suspension/brakes swap/upgrade starts: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11548 ... st13490858

Page through... it'll even show the tools that were used to fab brake lines.

2X with CraigerF100...

- The 72's hard lines will work. You'll see in my build thread that I had to source the frame brackets which your rig should have already.
- I would ditch the factory distribution block, avoid the troublesome factory prop valve of the donor, and go with an aftermarket prop valve.
- Brake pedals & linkage **should** work. It's better to get the MC/bracket, and booster from a single donor.

If I can do it, you can do it....

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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

A word of caution with the Wilwood valve. It 's essentially just a distribution block with a manually - adjustable proportioning valve built in.

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/MasterCyl ... dwg-lg.jpg

Unlike a factory Ford disc/drum combination valve, the Wilwood valve does not have a metering function to control the front brakes and it does not have a pressure differential valve to warn if there's a malfunction in the brake system.

Ford disc/drum combination brake valve's also have a proportioning function. This involves a small valve and a spring in the secondary side of the valve body (feed to the rear brakes) that holds the valve open under normal braking. In a panic stop situation, the sudden rise of fluid pressure overcomes the tension of the spring and the hydraulic force pushes the valve in to partially block the fluid passage to the rear brakes. This is done to keep the rear wheels from locking up in a panic brake situation. The factory proportioning valve's spring rate is designed to work at a specific pressure, based on things like; vehicle weight, center of gravity of the vehicle, brake size/type, etc., etc.

Unless you know what the specific (knee - point) pressure reduction rating for your vehicle is and you have a set of pressure gauges to set the manual valve to that, turning the knob on a manually - adjustable proportioning valve will only be a guess at best.

View of internal workings/functions of two types of Ford disc/drum combination valves.

Image
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by flyboy2610 »

Aftermarket brake booster brackets are available. About 2/3 down the page on the right hand side: http://flashbackf100s.com/new_parts_page
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by HIO Silver »

The way to adjust a prop valve is to do panic stops where the fronts lock up slightly before the rears lock up... No gauges needed.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by Albert_f100 »

Can I use a 72 booster with my 72 f100 with a 76 master cylinder with 76 proportional valve, and 76 disc brakes? Or do I have to a 76 booster?
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

Albert_f100 wrote:Can I use a 72 booster with my 72 f100 with a 76 master cylinder with 76 proportional valve, and 76 disc brakes? Or do I have to a 76 booster?
If you have a booster from a '72, the '76 booster isn't required. All other '76 components are compatible.
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

HIO Silver wrote:The way to adjust a prop valve is to do panic stops where the fronts lock up slightly before the rears lock up... No gauges needed.
If you're just a person behind the wheel running the vehicle up to speed and then slamming the brakes on, you can't see (from the interior of the vehicle) if the front wheels locked up ahead of the rears or, if the fronts and rears locked up at the same time or, if the rears locked up before the fronts, or if the fronts locked up but the rears didn't lock up at all. With no gauges to be able to see the line pressures of the primary vs. secondary side and have a specific pressure setting to dial the man. prop. valve to, you would need a by-stander to observe what wheels are turning or not turning, and when, during the skid.

Outside of not having pressure gauges and a known pressure value to dial the man. prop. valve to, about the only way to have an idea of what is or isn't locking up and when would be to place a white reference mark on the sidewall of the front and rear tires --sort of like a drag racer would do to determine how much the tire is slipping off the line before the tire finally hooks up and grabs, only in this case, it would be the opposite where you are observing the tires turning and then determining when they began to skid. This situation would be best if the by-stander is videoing the event so that it can be played back in slow motion so the white reference marks on the tires can be observed to see the timing of if the wheels are locking up, and when, in relation to each other.

I'm not a stranger to manually-adjustable proportioning valves. I used to install them and have installed them on several vehicles but I don't use them anymore. The proportioning circuit of the factory disc/drum combination valve is already calibrated to operate at the correct pressure level so no adjustment is needed on them. They also have a metering circuit for the primary (front) brakes which the Wilwood valve doesn't come with and it also has a pressure differential valve to sense for a brake malfunction that the Wilwood valve also doesn't have.

Some brake conversions I've done where I installed manually-adjustable proportioning valves:

'56 Chevy Belair I did the tubing work on and the addition of the man. prop. valve.

Image


'65 F-100 I converted from a single pot (suicide MC) to a dual reservoir MC.

Image


Late model ('96 Ford Explorer) 4-wheel disc MC, manual prop. valve & hydraulic clutch MC I was in the process of installing on a '68 Mustang.

Image


2.3L Fox Mustang power brake booster, '99 SN95 V6 Mustang 4-wheel disc MC and man. prop. valve I installed in a '65 Mustang fastback.

Image


'98 Ford Winstar 4-wheel disc MC on a 2.3L Fox Mustang booster & Wilwood man. prop. valve I installed in a '65 Mustang.

Image

The previous photos were taken several years ago. One of them was from 10 years ago. The most recent brake work I've done (last year) was on this '67 Mustang. It had 4-wheel 4-lug drums. I converted the front to '75-'80 Granada 5-lug discs and replaced the anemic Ford 7-1/4" rear end with a 5-lug Ford 8-inch drum brake rear. I installed a new dual MC, fabbed the brake lines and installed the stock disc/drum Ford combination valve with no man. prop. valve.

Image


You may notice in several of the photos that you can see the stock disc/drum combination valve being use along with the manual proportioning valve. I don't fool with the man. prop. valves anymore because the stock combination valves are really all that's needed but, IF you were going to run this combination for the benefits of the metering and pressure differential safety feature the stock valves offer, it's imperative that you gut the secondary side of the stock disc/drum combination valve to remove the factory proportioning valve spool and spring. If you do not, you will have TWO proportioning valves, in series, working against each other.

Image


Stock proportioning components to remove from the factory disc/drum combination valve.

Image

If the stock combination valve has a black rubber plug in the center of the cap, the cap will have to be replaced with a solid cap. Otherwise, the first time the brakes are applied the pressure of the brake fluid, inside the valve body, will blow the rubber plug out and brake fluid will spray everywhere.

Cap with black rubber plug on left, solid cap on right.

Image


I will say the Wilwood valve you have is a cool looking piece and that you did a very good job of making some professional looking lines. :thup:
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by Albert_f100 »

If I wanted to a buy a booster for a 72 would it be a adjustable or non adjustable if I've never had a booster in the truck
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

Albert_f100 wrote:If I wanted to a buy a booster for a 72 would it be a adjustable or non adjustable if I've never had a booster in the truck
Adjustable in what way?
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by Albert_f100 »

I guess dealing with with rod connecting to the pedal.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

Albert_f100 wrote:I guess dealing with with rod connecting to the pedal.
I have a brake booster from a '68 F-250 Camper special that looks like this.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0066

It's a 9" diameter unit with a single diaphragm.

I also have this 11" diameter single diaphragm booster from a '78/'79 F-150. .....although, not all '73-'79 Dentside boosters are compatibale with '72-earlier trucks without swapping out the pedals and pedal hanger too for the later model stuff.

Image

However, I installed a booster from a '75 Ford F-350 1-ton Dentside truck in my '69 Ranger. It's an 8-3/4" diameter Bendix booster with dual-diaphragms. It's a pretty powerful unit due to the fact that it has dual-diaphragms (nearly twice the surface area of the single diaphragm units). Part number 54-73112. I traded my core in for the booster below from O'Reilly auto Parts.

Image

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0066

....I haven't replaced the ugly factory brake lines to the MC because I haven't installed the discs and factory disc/drum combination valve (from a '77 F-100) on my truck, yet, since my truck still has its stock 4-wheel drums and its stock drum/drum pressure differential valve.

The '72 booster should have a threaded (female) end on the input rod ....or, at least from the O'Reilly website it shows a '72 F-100 brake booster with the threaded input rod. Part number 50-9323.
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by guhfluh »

Although I agree that using a stock combination valve for its metering properties is best, I disagree that it is hard to dial in a proportioning valve and tell whether the front or rear is locking up - that depends on the person and their abilities. Also, when using a stock proportioning circuit, it is only correct for the stock vehicle it was designed for. Once anything is changed on the vehicle that affects braking dynamics, that stock proportional pressure is no longer the best pressure. This is one of the major reasons Dodge chose to install rear wheel anti lock brakes on ALL of its trucks as standard starting back in the early 90's. In our applications it not only means how the vehicle is loaded, but also piston diameters, rotor and drum diameters, drum width, brake pad and shoe friction material, suspension alterations, ride heights, etc, etc.

Also, just a personal observation: I have never seen a split braking system or differential valve actually work in application. Every time I have had a leak on one circuit, all is lost. That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have those failsafes in my system though, as I believe it's best to have them in case they do work as advertised in the time of need.
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Re: Power Brake booster and Disc conversion 1972

Post by ultraranger »

If you're converting a bump side truck over to dent side front disc brakes, the proportioning calibration of the factory disc/drum combination valve from the dent side will be pretty much ideal for the bump side (of the same truck series and size) since the bumps and dents are very similar in weight and size within their particular series.


http://www.stoptech.com/technical-suppo ... ing-valves

http://www.mbmbrakeboosters.com/index.p ... &Itemid=10
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
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